I think everyone would agree the economy is in trouble and not just in the U.S. The quibbling begins over how bad it is, how bad it will get, and how long it may last. I really don’t want to quibble over those details here, but I’m in the “it’s really not looking too good” camp.
Most people would probably agree that yes, climate change will affect the planet, but I doubt many have really done much research on what it might mean for them personally or for their region and the way of life there. I know that a turning point for me was when I heard that European vineyards are changing the type of grapes they grow or moving northward already due to climate change.
And, finally, there are the long-term impacts of peak oil. I know that many folks have breathed a sigh of relief. The low gas prices must mean all the peak oil theorists were wrong. We’re safe! No, I don’t think so. Oil has still peaked and the price will climb in time. Transportation by more efficient methods than our current gas guzzling vehicles will be important in the long run, whether it’s a super-efficient motorized vehicle, mass transit, bicycle, or feet. (No horses for me, unfortunately – I’m allergic.)
So, long preface short, we need to find a place to live where we can hook into a local economy, survive climate change, and minimize our oil needs. And by we, I mean all of us, but mostly right now I’m talking about myself, my sweetie, and my dog. (The fish is moving to a local schoolroom tomorrow.)
I need your input in finding a place for us to move. I welcome anything you want to share, whether in a long comment or by e-mail. Comments will be moderated* so you can leave your e-mail address without it being made public. (Moderating comments means they are not published until I’ve looked at them. So, I can get a private message from you in the comment section and then delete it rather than publish it. Please let me know if you do not want it out there for everyone to see.) UPDATE: Comment moderation is now turned OFF so all comments will publish immediately. Do not include your e-mail address if you don't want it out there for the world to see.
So, here’s what we are looking for and what we want to avoid. Please offer opinions on whether your area fits somewhat or completely. Also, let me know if you’d like me for a neighbor.
What we want
- Community
- Population no larger than 100,000
- Relatively safe without excessive crime
- Culture open to outsiders
- Community resources such as library, community center classes, etc.
- Farmer’s market and/or CSA
- Average IQ over 75 please
- Place where you won’t get shot for having an Obama bumpersticker or one that says, “Got soymilk?”
- Weather
- Minimum 20” annual rainfall, but not all at once (Please note if flooding is an issue in your area.)
- Gardening Zone 6 or higher (Average minimum temperature no colder than –10° F.)
- Occasional snow that melts off in less than a week. We’re desert rats and really couldn’t deal with many feet of snow or snow that lingers for months. If owning a snowmobile is mandatory in your area, we’re not interested!
- Enough sunshine to use solar oven regularly, at least in spring and summer. (Need 4-6 hours uninterrupted sun during the day.)
- Some regular sunshine in the winter. We’re both prone to Seasonal Affective Disorder.
- No hurricanes.
- Preferably no tornadoes, but you can try to convince me if they aren’t too bad or too frequent. Having never lived in tornado country, I don’t have a clue other than the destruction I see reported.
- Region
- Arable land
- Clean groundwater
- Cheap houses/property
- Not on top of a fault zone
- Not on top of significant coal deposits
- Not surrounded by GMO crops
- Not mountainous
- No coastal areas
- No nearby EPA Superfund sites
So, are we dreaming? Does such a place exist? Do you live in a wonderful area and does the farmer up the road want to sell his nice little house to someone who promises not to tear down it and put up an ugly McMansion?
63 comments:
I'll be envious when you find it! You already know you don't want to live here in the high desert. Too cold at night, too short of growing season (does 72 days really count as a season?) Good luck - I'll enjoy watching.
I'll bet it's not in Arizona... ;)
Seriously - let me know when you find it.
As much as I like living in the Bay Area, I'll never be able to afford to buy a house here.
Hmm. That's quite a list of criteria. You've seen me write about my area. It's not the most accepting at times (very conservative and religious), but it's a place where I can make a difference. As much as I love visiting California, a commenter reminded me that there I'm just one in a million. Here, I can and am actually making a difference in my community.
We don't have the best public transportation, but it's there if we need it. For the most part I can get around on my bike. We live in twin towns, each with about 75,000 people.
The best part? This is one of the most inexpensive places in the country to live. That's why we own our house, we paid cash for our car, and I can afford to stay home and we live on just my hubby's income.
I said earlier that there's a bit of an air of intolerance here, but the progressive movement is growing. We have book clubs, a locavore group, a film festival, pot luck dinners, 2 CSA's, a fabulous year-round farmers market, wonderful local restaurants, and many, many good progressive people with which to hang out. This is also a university town so although we're not as liberal as say Austin, we get a little better each year.
This isn't my dream place to live, but we've found community here. We can vacation in those dream places. As long as we can find warmth and friendship here in BCS, we'll be around. And there's plenty of it here.
Oh, and you are always welcome. We'd be honored to have you as a neighbor. And seriously, it's Texas. You can have all the farm land you want :)
I think you should look around the Athens, GA area, maybe east of Athens. It is a college town, so it is pretty progressive as far as the people who live there. Plenty of Obama supporters, a cool local food co-op, some nice natural foods stores etc. Once you get a few miles outside of Athens it becomes pretty rural, lots of farm land etc. Mild winters, though a bit of a drough problem in the summer. Plenty of rain in the winter if you collect it for the summer.
Atlant is about 70 miles due west of Athens so you don't want to go west of Athens, but east get rural pretty fast. We are about 15 miles northeast of Athens, out in the boonies, but close enough to go to Athens a few times a week.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. We think it is about perfect here.
You would absolutely, positively love Champaign, IL. Mountains? Nope. Coastline? Nope. Welcoming to newcomers? Hey, we welcome 40,000 students from all over the world every year. Obama sticker? Sure! You could see any kind of sticker you could think of here. We have a symphony orchestra, Big Ten sports, several farmer's markets, low crime, reasonable housing prices, the best soil in the world, and (usually) nearly perfect rainfall for gardening. Maybe slightly more snow than you're used to, in Zone 5b, but that's only a slight adjustment. We're home to REO Speedwagon and Bonnie Blair, not to mention three Nobel Laureates. We've got a great mass transit system, and our economy is stable. You should come. I think you'd be an asset to the community.
Come to Paducah, KY. We have an extremely vibrant community here in "Lowertown" with a spring/summer/fall farmer's market, CSA, art galleries, 4 definable seasons of weather in Zone 7 (the winters are not frigid, but there is occasional snow..the summers are hot and humid, but I had a huge, booming garden last year...you just have to pick the right things!), an indie movie house, symphony orchestra, small-scale theater, and nice, riverbottom soil for farming. The Fountain Avenue neighborhood is working on an initiative to restore/renovate all of the historic homes in the area, and the city is selling houses for a dollar (there's more to it than that, but it's still a pretty sweet deal). Real estate here is awesomely cheap. My boyfriend and I got an 1800 sqf 1907 Victorian that had been totally restored (incl. new roof, plumbing, and electric) for $65,000. We have a population of roughly 45,000, though the city triples its population during the working hours because people commute from the outlying small farming communities to work here. We have a very active Parks Department with summer programs for the kiddies AND an art school that's opening up downtown. There's a sweeeet coffee shop that sells fair-trade, shade-grown, organic brew, a tea house, a couple of natural grocery stores, a Kroger that's growing increasingly organic-friendly, ANNNNNDDDDDDDD a very, very, very good chance that we'll be getting a co-op sometime in the near future!! There's a co-op in Carbondale right now (about an hour north) that a lot of us carpool to once a month, and they're working on opening a location in Paducah, which would be fantastic.
I moved here essentially by throwing a dart at the map and I love it. We're right on the Ohio River, but you needn't worry about floods. The last flood was "The Big One" of '37, and immediately afterward, we built a gigantic flood wall and levy. The flood gates have never been closed, even when the Ohio River flooded horribly last Spring. The river did flood, of course, but the levy is so high that there was no concern with closing the gates.
Tornados? We'll have some spawn in the spring, but always out in the rural areas--never in the middle of town. I grew up in Oklahoma, so I always think tornado warnings are terribly exciting, but that's just me!
Plenty (PLENTY) of Obama signs/bumper stickers/banners, etc., so you wouldn't be alone. We also have a fairly active political scene, if you want to get in on it.
Paducah is a town in transition. Back in the 80s, it was little more than a ghost town. Thanks to multiple initiatives by the city, Paducah is recovering and its old building are being restored to their former glory. Lowertown/Fountain Ave. are FANTASTIC little insular communities within the city. Yes, there is a lot of poverty here, but crime is minimal and limited to the more impoverished parts of town. :/ I'm not sure what sort of jobs you all would be looking for, but if you give me an idea, I can try to figure out what the market is like.
Oh, and if it matters, we have all the big-box stores down on the strip--PetsMart, Home Depot, Lowe's, a mall with the usual stuff, and just about every chain restaurant you could ever want. We also have some FANTASTIC local eateries and mom & pop nurseries.
Errm...soo....yeah...I love talking about my little town. :) Come be my neighbor, and I'll give you all of the starts you could ever want come spring (I always plant WAY too many).
-Kelsie
Wow, I guess most of the states from Texas to Georgia are out, ooh.... Oklahoma and Arkansas are out of the running too on several counts. (Yes, the entire states mentioned) Boy, that "community" section's a hard one to get by...
P.S.--We ARE, unfortunately, near a clean-up site. There was a big government to-do here the other night about the plans to turn it into something that will benefit the community (after clean-up, of course). It's a gaseous diffusion plant. Ugh. I can't believe I forgot about it. I didn't even KNOW about it until I'd already lived here for several months!
For what it's worth, our water system won an award for the purest, cleanest, safest water in Kentucky...
*sigh* It's still a smashing little town!
Good luck. I hope you find what you are looking for Chile. We live in the SF Bay Area and certainly don't have much of what you are looking for, or us either for that matter. If you find Nirvana, please send word so we can all follow you. ;-)
Portland, Maine has everything you are looking for except more than occasional snow and not the greatest public transportation unless you live in town. Less than 10 or 15 minutes out is farmland. Property tax here, as in all of New England, is freakin' outrageous. Low sales tax though.
You would hate it up here in the Boston suburbs - basically we hate the winter but we really like everything else, but it has a lot of the things you don't want. I was surprised you didn't mention jobs though - for us that is the biggest factor - we have to live where there are pharmaceutical/biotech companies otherwise I think we'd seriously consider Hawaii!
Lawrence, Kansas comes pretty close to meeting all your criteria. Farmer's market from March to November, a CSA, a restaurant serving all local fare (http://www.localburger.com/), one of the only two "blue" counties in the state and you'd definitely be able to find a community of like-minded folks.
It might be a tad bit on the cold side for you in the winter and we definitely have tornado warnings sometimes in the spring. But your chances of actually being hit are tiny.
As for property costs, they're coming down fast for houses in town. I don't know about land outside of the city limits. Might be worth looking into. I wish you luck on your search!
Chile,
I think Pennsylvania might be perfect for you, though the concern about coal might be an issue to look into. I grew up in Chester County, PA and it's beautiful and temperate (actually rather close to Lebanon, which is the zone 6a example on your link). Chester and Bucks counties range in development from semi-urban to totally rural and have all the amenities suited to those lifestyles. The property values are fairly reasonable and many local farmers grow organic. The Amish are nearby in Lancaster county, so you can count on their influence in much of the area farming.
There are no hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes or other natural catastrophies, but there is fairly close access to the ocean (Jersey) and to many camping and hiking spots. Philadelphia and Wilmington, DE are both close to Chester County and Bucks County is close to Philly and Hershey.
The region is rich in local history and, depending on what town you settle in/near, home to universities, SEPTA public transportation, and an excellent library system. Penn State branched abound, so you can count on reasonably well educated people equally reasonably accepting.
In terms of potable water: my family still lives in West Chester, PA and they still drink from a well.
Also in Chester County: a thriving Peace Movement and Freethinkers Society (atheist acceptance movement). Chester County is historically home to a large Quaker population and maintains many of those peaceful and tolerant roots to this day.
Fortunately, not all of PA is saddled with Obama's famous bitterness, guns, and intolerance.
I hope this suggestion helps! Of course, I'd be delighted to have you as my neighbor, but my current home of Los Angeles fails on several of your criteria, including the unmentioned, but implied risk of detaching into the ocean when the sea levels rise. Incidentally, added, cynical bonus of Chester County: if sea levels rise 10-20 feet, you'll have beachfront property.
Chili, First let me say, of course we'd love you as a neighbor! Now let's see how we, here in Utah, stack up.
On community we can comply with 1&2 (yea, seriously).
On weather are get #2,4, and 5ish and a solid on 6&7.
On region we get #2,5, and 9.
Yea, probably we don't qualify but what is really interesting to me is that my mental waunderings today had me dreaming of financial independence (a la lottery) and I think I'd be looking at Maine or I'd be Shasha's neighbor over at Seeking Simplicity in her new Amish house, or somewhere in KY.
It will be interesting to see what you choose. I love the rainfall amounts! Deams of desert dwellers
Well heck, I guess we get just a bit to much snow up here to make it onto the short list!
I'm sure you will find somewhere that fits for you and your family Chile. The right place will come at just the right time :)
I live in Boise, Idaho. Mild desert climate. Housing is still reasonable and low-crime.
I live in the north end of the city close to downtown. The greenbelt runs the length of the river and is a block and a half away from my house. Also, close to a fishing and swimming hole. So many people ride bikes or scooters here. My son rides his bike to classes at BSU everyday snow, rain or shine. Did I mention the Boise Broncos and the smurf turf? You can tell when it is game day, everyone is in blue and orange.
Downtown is very nice, lots of nice shops and quaint local restaurants. The Grove is always busy, Alive After Five in the summer (Wed night concert series 5-8 have something to eat, drink and listen to great music while the kids cool off in the fountain).
Farmer's markets and CSA's available. The Boise Co-op sells healthy and organic foods.
The Morrison center at BSU has lots of plays and concerts. The Idaho Botanical Gardens, the Old Idaho Penitentiary has tours and is very interesting.
In the summer people float the river, go up to Lucky Peak for boating, Bogus Basin for skiing and I could go on and on.
Here are some websites to check out...
www.boise.org
www.cityofboise.org
www.boisechamber.org
www.visitidaho.org
www.downtownboise.org
www.boisestate.edu
www.boiseweekly.com
www.capitalcitypublicmarket.com
www.localharvest.org and put in Boise, Id.
Hope this helps
You can also check out my blog at www.kaarinivorouscrunch.blogspot.com
Shangri-la does not exist except for fairytales and bad 70's disco songs.
Other than that sorry I don't know of such a place.
I would say move to Seattle but you and your husband will freeze to death here- and I am not sure you would get to use your solar oven unless it works in rainstorms.
Seriously- this area still has rural areas, I hear Walla Walla is nice!
I'd love to be your neighbor Chile. We share a backyard with our current neighbors, sandboxes and plastic toys galore. It'd be heaven to share with a gardener. But such is the price for making our home here. I can't wait to see what you find.
$65K? Dang, I could buy that with the limits on just two credit cards... Kelsie, you do make quite a convincing case... but, but... Kentucky? What's the vegan - forget that - restaurant scene like?
Maybe I should go there and open a restaurant....
You won't be my neighbor, but I think Garnet, KS meets all your requirements. Zone is 6a, very low crime (in fact I think its non-existent), they have a farmers' market, population according to wikipedia is about 3,000.
Hmm...being in KS there might be in hurricanes country So nevermind.
Its one of my favorite little towns however. There was quite a bit of ethnic diversity and its not far form Lawrence (by car if you do want to make a drive), and if you feel more adventurous, the bike paths do connect up.
Pricing wise, I recall they had very affordable properties that were really nice, and their thrift store seemed to be a community gathering point. Which pleased me to no end.
Their downtown was very walkable and bikeable. And since the bike paths connect up with quite a few other small downs, it seems like it would be perfect for the post-oil world.
I would wax poetic about Vermont, wait, I already have! Too much snow and cold here for your comfort.
I'm curious on your list where you will compromise. So many of the weather related wishes are so changeable year to year.
I hope you find what you are looking for and if it's in the Northeast we'll have to meet some day.
I don't think here fits any of your criteria :( I'd love you as a neighbour
I don't think here fits any of your desires, but I'd love you as a neighbour
Apart from csa and other americanisms that is our city. Slight disadvantage - we are half way round the world!
That's why we won't move.
We are in Dunedin by the way.
viv in nz
I second psuklinkie's suggestion for Chester County. I live in the Philly suburbs on the Jersey side in one of those towns that is always at the top of the "best places to live in NJ" lists. It's small, lots of public transportation into the city, basically all of the things you are looking for with a big, huge downside -- land (and New Jersey, in general) is ridiculously expensive and overvalued, and there isn't much of it. Also, there is an awesome farm market nearby, but for the CSA and the coop...I have to go over the bridge.
Chester County, PA is right up your alley.
Your list reminded me of Steve Martin in "The Jerk" explaining what prize you could win at the carny.
Uh, anything in this general area right in here. Anything below the stereo and on this side of the bicentennial glasses. Anything between the ashtrays and the thimble. Anything in this three inches right in here in this area. That includes the Chiclets, but not the erasers.
Hope you find what you're looking for. If not, you can dock your boat next to mine!
I'll offer a bit of advice to aid in your selection process via our relocation experience:
My job requires personal appearances in the office, so our search was defined, ie, a 15-minute drive surrounding the work location. Using that circumference, my husband then selected the area with the best mobile phone reception (we choose not to have a landline telephone), along with a town center within walking distance from the house.
The next choice: finding the property with the highest elevation. Living on a hill means you have optimum daylight for use and that your water source will not be contaminated by neighbor's septic slurry. The third benefit is the peace and quiet.
A parallel search began simultaneously to select the fastest broadband connection in the area (we choose not to have a TV and receive all our visual stimulation via the web).
The result is a location far too north for your preference. However, for the necessity of me commuting to work, our location has minimized our energy output to a third of what we previously used. We have also found a way to live very simply (read: full and culturally rich lives without material complications or debt of any kind).
I hope the above can provide others with a simple means to achieving simplicity. :)
I'd love you as my neighbour!
Looking down the list I've realised that here in England we meet all those requirements. Might be a bit of a journey to work though!
I'm with Klund. What you're describing sounds just like Boise. Except I'm not sure about the rainfall, but you could always attach rain barrels to the downspouts of your house. ;)
Davis, CA! We meet almost all of your criteria, except I doubt we get enough water and property is expensive. Although if you get out of town far enough, it might be much cheaper. I rent a community garden plot for a pittance, and it includes water, and with our weather I grow food 12 months a year. We have a great community (although there's a lot of turnover because of the University). I guess there might be some GM crops around, also because of the University. Lots of sunny days for the solar ovens, year-round Farmer's Market, several CSAs, and a fantastic food Co-op. And almost no big box stores (although Target is coming in on the edge of town). Also, everyone bikes everywhere - we're the bike-friendliest city in the US. There are a ton of community resources, including the University, and people tend to be very civic-minded. I wish the weather was slightly cooler year-round (a smidgen of snow in the winter and not quite so scorching summers would be nice), but I can't really complain.
I would also recommend PA Chester County and Lancaster County. NJ has some beautiful areas including farmland however property taxes are very high. We live in Philly which doesn't meet your criteria being a large city but west of us towards Lancaster is a beautiful area for the most part untouched by factory farming.
We purchase most of our food from the Amish and eventually would like to buy our own land out that way.
Sounds like Lawrence, KS to me. Or any of the smaller towns around NE Kansas.
Tornados are just a big storm. I've lived here all my life and never seen one.
As much as I think you would be an awesome neighbor, I don't think you'd be able to stand where I live in "the IE" (Inland Empire). While we don't get hurricanes or tornadoes, we do get the Santa Anas which threaten to blow us off the face of the earth. We also get temperatures that hover around the 110° mark, have almost no public transportation to speak of, and I seriously doubt the majority of people out here have an IQ close to your requirement.
But hey, on a positive note, you'd be able to use your solar oven at least 362 days out of the year :)
Good luck, and if you find Utopia, let me know. I might just pack my bags...
Ha! You guys are cracking me up. Over here! No, over here!
Chile, if you find something that meets all your criteria, I'll be impressed.
The project manager in me wants you to prioritize your list so we know how one "feature" ranks against another or if it can be tossed out until the next upgrade.
Many of the southern coastal areas of Maine fit your ideal with regard to "community", but fall short in the other two areas. Specifically, we have a lot of snow, and I live two miles from the coast. My mother, who lives in Kentucky, was telling me about the "storm" they had that "dumped" an inch of snow on them. Looking out my window at the several FEET of snow piled up outside, I laughed. An inch is not a snow storm for where I live ;).
While I think Maine is perfect (and it would be totally cool to have you as a neighbor :), I think Maine is too cold, too mountainous, possibly too isolated, and too coastal for your needs ;). We don't have hurricanes, but we do have Nor'easters ... brr!
If not for the "no snow" criteria, you might really like Ithaca, NY. From what I understand, it's an incredibly diverse and wonderful community, and they even have an Eco Village of very like-minded people ;).
Good luck in your search :).
Wow, great response (and I hope the comments keep coming!) I do want to point out a couple of things. Yes, I'm well aware that we will have to compromise in some places, but this list helps narrow down the search and eliminate places that won't work for us.
Even before Crunchy brought it up, I was thinking ranking some of the criteria would be helpful. Top one would have to be AFFORDABLE! Some of the places suggested sound quite nice but my sweetie's initial research is showing they are out of our price range.
We also really don't think we could do feet and feet of snow hanging around for weeks/months. Desert rats have thin blood...
Keep the ideas coming. My sweetie's in charge of specific research and is really diggin' all this data!
You'd be welcome here in the Gulf Islands.
* Community
o Population no larger than 100,000
Population 1,100; about 35,000 in local region
o Relatively safe without excessive crime
Almost no crime (unless you count illicit agriculture); police don't even bother to come to the community, except for an annual raid on said illicit agriculture.
o Culture open to outsiders
Just about everyone is a come-from-away
o Community resources such as library, community center classes, etc.
Library, community classes at the school, arts centre, concert series, meditation centre, more yoga teachers than you can count, high proportion of artists
o Farmer’s market and/or CSA
Farmers' market weekly in summer; organic farms
o Average IQ over 75 please
High percentage of PhDs, including people you wouldn't expect, like electrician, potter, etc.
o Place where you won’t get shot for having an Obama bumpersticker or one that says, “Got soymilk?”
You might get shot for having a McCain bumper sticker, and don't even think about mentioning Palin; vegetarianism is mainstream and veganism is normal
* Weather
o Minimum 20” annual rainfall, but not all at once (Please note if flooding is an issue in your area.)
Average 59", though global warming is reducing that; last year was very dry at 33"; summers are dry, winters aren't
o Gardening Zone 6 or higher (Average minimum temperature no colder than –10° F.)
Zone 8a
o Occasional snow that melts off in less than a week. We’re desert rats and really couldn’t deal with many feet of snow or snow that lingers for months. If owning a snowmobile is mandatory in your area, we’re not interested!
Don't need a snowmobile, but damn it's taking a long time for that last fall to melt! That's unusual - usually it melts within a week.
o Enough sunshine to use solar oven regularly, at least in spring and summer. (Need 4-6 hours uninterrupted sun during the day.)
Definitely in spring, summer and fall. Probably not in winter.
o Some regular sunshine in the winter. We’re both prone to Seasonal Affective Disorder.
Could be a problem. Though green forests in winter are a treat.
o No hurricanes.
Well, technically, it wasn't a hurricane ... just a doozy of a winter storm. It hadn't happened before in the memory of anyone I talked to.
o Preferably no tornadoes, but you can try to convince me if they aren’t too bad or too frequent. Having never lived in tornado country, I don’t have a clue other than the destruction I see reported.
Does a waterspout count? It was in the above very rare non-hurricane.
Maybe one or two rolls of thunder per year, seriously.
* Region
o Arable land
Yes. "Bucolic" is the word.
o Clean groundwater
Clean yes. Smelly (sulphur) in places and not terribly abundant. Rainwater is better.
o Cheap houses/property
Uh-oh. But it is getting cheaper
o Not on top of a fault zone
Not DIRECTLY on top... But there is that darn Cascadia Subduction Zone 300 miles offshore. It hasn't moved since 26-Jan-1700.
o Not on top of significant coal deposits
There are some old played-out mines in surrounding communities. No mines or coal here.
o Not surrounded by GMO crops
Mostly organic. Anyone growing GMO would likely be lynched.
o Not mountainous
Highest point is 300' above sea level. Some pretty mountains across the water.
o No coastal areas
Uh-oh. That's a problem.
o No nearby EPA Superfund sites
Nope. Might be a LNG port 20 miles away in a few years. We're trying our best to kill it, though.
All the best,
KeithBC
C'mon, emigrate to New Zealand, your dollar will go further. One US NZ$1.80 at the moment :)
And you can replace my neighbour, he's wandering around his front yard in his underwear today......
Aw, Keith, you're breakin' my heart! We would LOVE to come but we just don't have the cash required to emigrate north. And we'd be right on the edge of the other emigration requirements, at least as of the last time I checked. We win the lottery, though, we'll be there one way or another!
And yes, I've avoided reading your diary lately because it makes me so sad that we can't go there. I promise I'll go catch up on the past few months...but only after I've had a nice glass of pomegranate liqueur to stiffen my upper lip. ;-)
Hugs to you and the Mrs. Eat some tasty vegan treats for me, okay?
We live in Dunedin, New Zealand, and I reckon it would be right up your alley. Here's a link to the Wikipedia website about our home city. But I'll also answer your questions:
Community
Population no larger than 100,000
- Technically we have about 150K people, but 30K of them are students, as this is a University town. Also, being a rural centre, the population includes people who live in outlying towns and cities such as Mosgiel (about 10K people) and others like it.
Relatively safe without excessive crime
We have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. There *was* a burglary six months ago, I think...
Culture open to outsiders
Yes, we're fairly multicultural, with significant Indian, Maori and Islanders populations, as well as a fair number of UK and US citizens, all of whom seem to fit in quite well.
Community resources such as library, community center classes, etc.
Being a University town with NZs premier university, we have excellent facilities, including orchestras, cultural centres, choirs, an excellent public library etc. I'm from Melbourne (3 1/2 million people) and the only thing I think Dunedin doesn't have that Melbourne does have is a zoo.
Farmer’s market and/or CSA
Yes. Every Saturday morning. We also have several health food stores where we buy bulk foods.
Average IQ over 75 please
It's a University town. We're swimming in PhDs!
Place where you won’t get shot for having an Obama bumpersticker or one that says, “Got soymilk?”
No - but they might laugh at you for the Obama thing! This is New Zealand!
Weather
Minimum 20” annual rainfall, but not all at once (Please note if flooding is an issue in your area.)
We get 800mls rain pa. Everything is lush and green.
Gardening Zone 6 or higher (Average minimum temperature no colder than –10° F.)
It is cool temperate here, so a bit colder than that, but people are noting it is getting warmer. Were gardening zone 7-8. Apples, pears, berries, nuts, yummy :-) The only thing you *can't* grow is tropical stuff.
Occasional snow that melts off in less than a week. We’re desert rats and really couldn’t deal with many feet of snow or snow that lingers for months. If owning a snowmobile is mandatory in your area, we’re not interested!
We have about half a dozen snow days a year, with a fall of a few centimetres. That's about it really. No-one gets snowed in, except people living a lot further up in the mountains, where it snows more.
Enough sunshine to use solar oven regularly, at least in spring and summer. (Need 4-6 hours uninterrupted sun during the day.)
No problems there.
Some regular sunshine in the winter. We’re both prone to Seasonal Affective Disorder.
No problem again. But we *are* far south, so days do get shorter. In winter sunrise is about 7 am and it gets dark around 5. But in the summer (right now) it is light by 5 am and stays light until almost 10 pm!
No hurricanes.
None.
Preferably no tornadoes, but you can try to convince me if they aren’t too bad or too frequent. Having never lived in tornado country, I don’t have a clue other than the destruction I see reported.
None.
Region
Arable land
Clean groundwater
NZ has plenty of clean, clear land and water. Pollution is not a problem.
Cheap houses/property
Average house price in Dunedin is $22k NZ, which is about $170K US, I think, depending on the exchange.
Not on top of a fault zone
Nope. Apparently we are supposed to get minor earthquakes, but Dunedin is not near any major fault lines.
Not on top of significant coal deposits
Nope. Wood burners are the go here.
Not surrounded by GMO crops
NZ is GM free.
Not mountainous
Parts of NZ have the most beautiful mountains in the world (have you seen "Lord of the Rings"?) but where we are it is very hilly, but not mountains. Dunedin is a very walkable city, and many people cycle.
No coastal areas
Ummm...everywhere has coastal areas..unless you want Switzerland. Yes, we're on the coast, but most of the city is above 50m elevation, if you're talking sea level rise here or tsunamis.
No nearby EPA Superfund sites
I don't know what this is!
NZ is the most beautiful country in the world. If you are skilled workers, visas shouldn't be a problem.
If you decide this might suit you, come for a visit, then check out the details.
Email me at daharja at gmail dot com if you think it might be right for you. We moved here from Australia in March 08, and haven't looked back! Best decision we ever made! :-D
Robj98168,
Shangri-La *does* exist! It's called New Zealand!
Cheers,
Daharja
(Moved to New Zealand from Melbourne Australia in March 08 and hasn't looked back!)
Living in Seattle, I don't think I can make a case for affordability or size, but most of the rest of your criteria are very well covered. What I do want to say though, is that after you spend a couple of years in a new climate your body becomes downright accustomed to it. You may not think you could stand cooler, rainier climates, but you might be surprised. I grew up in New England, where I *LOVED* the heat and humidity in the summer, and now I simply have no tolerance for it at all. Give me the cooler, dryer, no bugs environment of Seattle any summer's day.
Well, except for Mountainous and that we are 5b instead of 6a, you pretty much described where we live. We live in the Northern front range of Colorado, in Loveland. Loveland has about 77,000 people. There are numerous smaller towns scattered up and down the interstate, too (Try Berthoud, Wellington, etc).
Your list:
Community
Population no larger than 100,000
Relatively safe without excessive crime- I live in the worst part of town and feel safe walking my dogs by myself at midnight.
Culture open to outsiders
Community resources such as library, community center classes, etc- I live a block from all of the above.
Farmer’s market and/or CSA- THere's a couple to choose from.
Average IQ over 75 please- Hmmm....
Place where you won’t get shot for having an Obama bumpersticker or one that says, “Got soymilk?”- Had our Obama sign up. Didn't get shot. Neighbors have a couple similar. No bullet holes, either.
Minimum 20” annual rainfall- 14 inches of rainfall (oops!), but no flooding.
Gardening Zone 6 or higher- 5b
Occasional snow that melts off in less than a week=- As Colorado is Semi-Arid, we have snow that melts. ANd it doesn't fall often enough. 4 wheel drive is NOT mandatory.
Enough sunshine to use solar oven regularly- Very sunny here!
Some regular sunshine in the winter. Again, very sunny.
No hurricanes- none
Preferably no tornadoes- Very rare!
Arable land- lots of farms out here!
Clean groundwater- I drink the water out of the tap and love it.
Cheap houses/property- houses are a little expensive, but the pay scale reflects that.
Not on top of a fault zone-nope
Not on top of significant coal deposits-nope
Not surrounded by GMO crops- not sure
Not mountainous- Depends on how close you mean. The soil isn't "mountanous" (it's clay, which is good for the low rainfall, as it holds hte water)
No coastal areas- Check
No nearby EPA Superfund sites- Well, there is Rocky Flats, but it's more than an hour away.
Hey, Chile - Come to North Idaho! No tornadoes, no hurricanes, good land - maybe a little too conservative but there are pockets of us liberals. Oh, yeah, the snow. wweeelllll...
That's a little my 'fault': early in December when we were having temps hovering around zero, I casually threw out (a few times) that I'd much rather have snow than those cold temperatures...SOMEBODY was listening! Next year, I'll keep my big mouth shut!!
I'm super far behind, but if I were relocating for climate, I'd pick one of two places (note that I live in Minneapolis and the wind chill was -27 when I waited for the bus this morning).
1) rural Missouri. Man is it cheap out there. The climate is nice, and there are weird little knots of hippies - check out the area around Rutledge where Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage and Sandhill Farm are, for instance. They get lots of rain and four seasons, the soil is very variable by region but mostly good, some places are very conservative but not all.
The other place I'd look at is in Western Wisconsin. Colder than Missouri, and they get an awful lot of snow, but the area around La Forge is just amazing - lots of awesome people and projects, permaculture expertise, it's great.
Do not come to Alaska. It's expensive, a long way from anywhere else, got a hellava long winter with lots of dark, mostly full of conservatives, not much in the way of local food and, unless you live in Fairbanks, Anchorage or Juneau there is no such thing as public transportation.
But, frankly, I wouldn't live anywhere else.
I've lived in Florida, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Alaska and only Wisconsin compares somewhat favorably to Alaska. I live in Anchorage so it's not like I'm of the pioneer sort living off grid but there are opportunities available to me that I've not had anyplace outside of Alaska.
It's what you make of it. Becoming indigenous to a place is a commitment; one that realizes both the challenges and opportunities that place provides. I wish you luck in searching for your dream but you might find that where you have some connections (family, friends, community, etc.) may be your best bet.
Kerri in AK
Central North Carolina fits all your criteria. 'Nuff said. :D
Hehe. If you read my diary, you might want to skip the December and January issues. We don't normally get this much snow, I swear!
KeithBC
What about economic stability and job market?
Check out Asheville, NC I think it meets ALL of your criteria and more. I live about an hour south, but we are thinking of relocating there.
Katie said:
You might want to check out Watertown, TN (see our "homegrown" website at watertowntn.com). We're a small community (around 1350 people) about 45 minutes outside of Nashville. Over the past 10 to 15 years or so, we've been working on changing over our economy from a tobacco/transportation base to a tourism/fruit truck base. We've won grants to build a farmer's market pavilion (should be completed before October this year), we have 10 to 15 excursion trains per year come out from Nashville to our events (you can see a few pics on the website). There's a great coffeeshop that serves organic fair-trade brew, and library and local grocery store, and from where I live on Main Street I can walk (with my 8-year-old) to all the schools, the library, the bank, the antique shops, the coffee shop, restaurants (including yummy Mexican food), the post office, and the grocery. When it's completed, the farmer's market will be on that "walkable" list, too. We're zone 6, and even living on Main Street I have chickens in my backyard. I'm a PhD and work in Nashville, so I drive about 15 minutes to catch the commuter train (actually carpool with a friend who works at the State).
(Email address deleted by request)
LOL
Houston is a total failure on your list--- but I have to admit---
I'm Really Starting to Love It Here!
:-)
I live in Asheville, NC, and thought about mentioning it to you as a possibility, then saw someone else beat me to it. So just to give you the info on it: The housing market is pretty steep here, the bubble is still fairly strong. We've been renting for a while, and are looking to buy, but there aren't a lot of reasonable houses for us to choose from. A lot of developers have taken over the past 5 years and real estate has skyrocketed. Many people compare it to what happened to Santa Fe or Boulder. Like them, we have a large artist community, also. There is a strong organic farming community, as well as a very strong "green" movement. The town is very open and tolerant, most people are from other places. Expect to see very libral bumper stickers covering the back ends of a lot of cars! Commuting by bike is not easy. The town is working on bike paths, but has not made it a priority yet. We are in the mountains, but it is considered a "valley in the mountains" finding flat land for gardens and such is pretty easy. Weather is not too bad. No tornados, hurricanes usually break down before they get here, maybe a couple of inches of snow a year (thanks to global warming, it use to snow bunches here). We have been in a drought for a few years (refer back to the global warming comment), so a lot of people have started using rain barrels. We actually use to get the same amount of rain as Seattle, but more as rain storms, not constant drizzle. Hopefully the drought will ease up this year.
FWIW- we left Asheville 10 years ago and moved to Tucson for 5 years. Decided to move back for family reasons, but still miss Tucson for it's climate and our friends there. Asheville has a bit of the same "feel" as Tucson, if that makes any sense... or helps.
Joy
We have moved four times looking for just what you are looking for, bay area, Arkansas, two different locaitons in Northern California twice, and now east central California (almost moved to Sequim Washington and the hill country of Texas). Would do Oregon, but too rainy and overcast.
Perhaps where we are now is where you are looking for, not the rainfall, but we have plentiful, low-cost, gravity-fed irrigation water, enough sun, no crime, public transportation once a day, but we (I) can no longer take care of all the land so we are selling and will be relocating (we are a bit older now and some needs and wants change with that. We've thought of Asheville, North Carolina, southern Rockport and the hill country of Texas and possibly Georgia. To your list I would add culture, fresh fruits, vegetables and fish being available in the community or a nearby city, good healthcare nearby, economic stability and good job market (even if you are retired this affects the stability and crime rates). I think the place exists, but a few comprimises will be needed. Keep me posted when you find it, as soon as we sell we're moving too.
What a funny post. We made this site last year: www.helpusfindourfarm.com
While we have not found it that way we are moving from the desert to a place that we think will offer the things we need, which are not unlike your requirements.
We are going to rent while we search for the homestead.
Good-luck. We have been planning this for three years and are stoked to be nearly there,
J
More interesting suggestions. We're looking...
I saw someone mentioned rural MO, but I would definitely suggest checking out Columbia, MO. It's right around your 100,000 mark, and doing really well, so it might be getting a little big for you, but it's a liberal college town with a vibrant community and downtown area--live music, local cafes, etc. I've grown up here and absolutely love it. Great schools, decent public transport, great bike trails (I can ride a bike trail from my house on the west side right into the middle of downtown). My friends at college get tired of me talking about my hometown, but when they come visit they immediately see what I've been talking about all along.
As far as weather goes, it's not too severe in either direction. Summers are hot and humid, winters can get as little as 5 in. of snow or up to 20 in a single dump... the weather varies a lot and changes quickly, but it's not too bad. The bluffs protect us from tornadoes, so even though they happen all around us, I've never heard of one hitting Columbia.
From what I've heard, the local economy is going pretty strong, and unemployment here isn't as big of a deal as other places... but I'm definitely not an expert in that area.
Affordability is good--it has to be, considering we're a college town. It seems there's always a good stream of older, smaller (maybe fixer-upper) homes in the $65,000-$120,000 range in the real estate adds. So, affordable, in terms of the average American home.
And by the way, I go to school in Arkansas (I saw someone write it off earlier in the comments), and while parts may not be as progressive, some areas are (think central or northwest), and besides--it's absolutely gorgeous.
That's all I have... good luck!
Hi Chile,
You'll want to be well elevated.
Latest predictions of sea level rise are about 80 metres (yikes! And thats 262 feet) over the next 100 years or so.
Won't affect you yourself, unless you live to a good old age, but if you're planning to buy a property that retains value to pass on to descendants, it's something to consider.
Also consider where the water for the town is coming from. Sea level rise will affect aquifers, polluting underwater freshwater reserves for many large populations and seaboard towns. You'll want a town based on river water or with a good rain supply.
Just a couple of things to add to the mix when consider where to move.
Here in Shampoo-Banana, a.k.a. Champaign-Urbana IL we meet an awful lot of your criteria. Technically it's part of "tornado country," but I've been here 10 years and gone to the basement maybe 5 times. There are some weird micro-climate issues that mean a lot of storms go aroudn this specific area, too - at least that's my theory. Other people just call me the weather goddess because it doesn't rain on me :)
It's a University town... so diversity is welcome, though goin' 30 miles out of town creates a bit of a shift... but not that much further is Chicago. We've got a great food coop and options for supporting local organic famers and more Xtracycles per capita than you would believe... it ain't perfect (um, this is Illinois. The Governor. Nuff said.) Since I came out here, though, I've found it harmonious. Things like the housing bubbles... don't bubble here. I got a nice house for $83,000 and it's worth more now. Students and profs always need to live somewhere.
We did get to 17 below last week. That was Not NOrmal.
We hit almost all of your criteria -- except for the cold winter weather and we are zone 5 instead of 6. We did the same thing as you, measuring a bunch of different criteria to find where we wanted to be. We also counted natural springs into our criteria.
While we are very rural where we are, in this general region there are very interesting towns (larger sized where you can make some difference). We are not too far from Madison (1.5-2 hours) which for many is a huge plus.
No descendents of our own planned, Daharja, but we do hope to find like-minded folks before we vacate the premises. :)
Shasha - we actually saw an Amish property for sale up north and wondered whether we could do that. I'm not sure about the no running water part... I need to go read your blog and see if I could live like you!
My sister lives in Nebraska, and likes it quite nicely. She's in the middle of trying to buy a house for $25,000 there, small, but on a decent city lot. There are the cutest houses there for CHEAP!
She's near Lincoln, which is a big college (read liberal) city. GMO crops are, I'm sure, everywhere, but that is the fate of the midwest where you are looking.
She lives in Aurora, but Beatrice, Crete, Genoa, etc are all nice towns and cheap.
I grew up there... never had to water the garden or lawn, had to mow constantly to keep the grass in check. Quite a contrast to Colorado!
The other thing about the midwest is that the snow DOES stick around for months, unlike dryer places like Colorado (that shocked me when I moved here). It helps keep everything moist for gardening the next spring, though. Everything is a trade off.
Oh, and tornadoes. I've lived in tornado prone areas most of my life, and never been in one. We moved to COlorado (which is very rare to have them), and my husband was hit last spring. You should see our car. I wouldn't worry about them like I would worry about flooding, earthquakes, or hurricanes.
The Midwest would probably be a good fit for most of your criteria. Columbia, Missouri is awful nice...
Post a Comment