When the man came by last night to pick up the roof sheathing we'd listed on craigslist for free, he asked us why we were tearing the roof off our front deck. "It's really nice," he said. "I'd love to have a deck like that!"
We agreed with him and then assured him that we were not tearing it down by choice. This deck, which provides (provided) great shade on one long side of the house and a lovely place to sit and watch the birds, butterflies, bunnies, and burrowing ground squirrels, has been here for over four years. Visible to all who drive by and visible on the biannual overhead photos taken by the county government. As best we can tell, these photos are used, among other things, for making sure the assessor's office has every single taxable item on a property in their records and for enforcement of zoning codes.
But, I'm getting ahead of the story. When I first saw the photo of this house on the MLS listing, one of the things I really liked was the front deck with sunburst wrought iron railing. It was obviously not a new deck; in fact, we thought it may have been put up when the house was put in place.
We were wrong. A few months ago, we received a code violation notice from the county for a deck built without a permit. As per the instructions in our letter, I called the enforcement officer. Since we own the property, the county is holding us reponsible for the lack of permit even though it was a prior owner that actually did the deed. The assessor's records show it was built in '06 but apparently the zoning people didn't get around to noticing it on the ground for four years. I was informed that applying for a permit and paying for it even though it was already built would likely clear the violation.
If only life were so simple. Following their instructions, which were incomplete, we prepared our site plan and specs of how the deck had been built. We were a bit concerned after looking at their sample drawings for a covered porch that we were going to run into trouble with the deck's roof. It was connected to the edge of the house's roof, which was specifically not permitted according to the sample. Still, we proceeded with preparing the papers, prepared to cross that bridge when we got to it.
When I went to the county offices to file for the permit, I was told everything had to go through the flood control department for approval first since we live in a floodplain. They do not charge for their permits but have, as we were to find out, much stricter code requirements. After two weeks of waiting, we got a large packet back from that department. Among other things, they were unhappy with our site plan as it did not contain information they required, elements not included on the list given us by the other department. Although they didn't seem to have an issue with the deck, there was some additional distressing news in their packet that led us to hire a general contractor with over two decades of experience to help us through the permit process.
She spent hours meeting with me and with county officials. While officially our permit application for the deck had to be approved by the floodplain folks before it could go to the regular zoning department, the code violation issue was under a deadline and there was no way we could meet it as well as provide the voluminous information now required by the flood control department on their separate time table. She talked with the code enforcement officer who indicated simply removing the roof from the deck might solve our problems with the original code violation.
However, by this time, we'd done a little more investigation of our own and gotten feedback from the contractor, too. Even with the roof gone, there was no way the rest of the deck would meet code. While sturdy enough to last for decades, it was not built to code. Unfortunately, it is not a simple matter of just shoring up a few bits here and there. The supporting posts are not spaced correctly nor seated in properly-sized cement and rebar-reinforced holes, among other problems.
The entire deck was going to have to go. At this point, I called the code enforcement person and asked for the deadline we had to remove it entirely to make the code violation go away. Due to the amount of labor involved, my sweetie is taking time off work to meet the deadline. Hopefully he will still be able to since we had not factored in his mother's injury and hip replacement surgery! She's been moved closer to us for her physical therapy but checking in with her daily has put a crimp in the schedule and added a great deal of emotional strain to an already stressful situation.
We could, if we did things the typical American way, get this deck outta here in just a couple of days. Using a circular saw and a roll-off container destined for the landfill, we could rip and toss it quickly. That is not appropriate, though. Removing a perfectly good deck is already an incredible waste of the original effort and materials to construct it. No way are we going to add to the waste by trashing perfectly good materials.
Hence, the gentleman last night picking up the re-usable roof sheathing that has been removed. Friends with a truck also came by yesterday to help us haul the rolled roofing debris to the landfill. That will, we hope, be the only load that goes to the dump. Everything else should be recyclable or re-usable. The problem is that removing the millions of screws and nails is far more time-consuming and labor-intensive than just cutting everything up to throw away. And getting rid of it all is also time-consuming with little payback other than knowing we are not contributing to waste.
Craigslist is great for hooking up people with supplies but it sucks up a lot of time in the posting, responses, and then hoping people will actually show up when they say. (They rarely do.) The roof sheathing and weathered plywood decking is not in good enough shape to sell. The wood beams, posts, and supports will hopefully net a few dollars along with all the brackets and the wrought iron railing. It will in no way, though, be equivalent to the loss in value to the house from removing a nice deck.
And this is what really makes no sense. Because government departments don't work with each other, the county is going to lose tax revenues because the value of the house will be reduced. We do not have the funds to rebuild the porch to code nor the desire to go through the permit process again.
We are far from done with the permit nightmare. There is another looming issue we must deal with, one that will not devalue the house the way the loss of the porch does, but one that will cost us several thousand dollars out of pocket. Until it is completely resolved, I will not be writing about it.
I know there are those of you with good hearts and minds who will think we surely have not considered every option here, but let me assure you that we have. We've done a lot of research since this started and have hired two professionals to help us. The first person felt so badly about the whole unfair situation we've been placed in that she did not even charge us for her services. This will not be the case with the engineer we are currently working with. Both professionals have spoken extensively with county personnel to see if there is any way to avoid doing all the work they are demanding. There is not. The county will not waive any requirements, they will not grandfather them in, nor do they care that we are new owners and did not do the original work. Legal options are not possible for a variety of reasons I don't want to get into here, and in any case, would not result in us recouping our losses. The best we can hope for at this point is to get all the work done that is required of us and sell the house for enough that we don't totally lose our shirts.
This whole experience (of which you only have gotten a small glimpse) has been a huge drain on our time, our energy, our emotions, and our money. It has robbed us of our dreams and greatly increased our cynicism of what is happening in this country. Combined with the family traumas of the past few months (dog's cancer, nephew's death, and MIL's injury), I have been so depressed and angry that my whining and negativity is driving away friends and acquaintances.
I almost wrote a post this week on how to respond to someone in crisis like this. Do not tell them it will be okay - it might not, do not tell them they just need to meditate - they may not have the energy left to do even that, and do not just ignore them - they are already dealing with a heartless situation. Do not offer advice unless the person asks for suggestions or ideas.
No, in my opinion, the proper response is more along the lines of, "I'm so sorry to hear how difficult it has been for you lately. Is there anything I can do to help?" Then maybe offer to take the person out for a coffee or lunch, or help with the work of getting the property ready to put on the market, or just offer a hug and understanding. This may not be the case for everybody in crisis, but I know it is for me. I'd much rather have someone come take care of some of the weed-eating or pruning than tell me how I just need to hire a lawyer and sue everybody.
Please note that this obviously applies to dealing with people in person, not over the Internet. I do not expect folks across the country or the world to hop on a plane to come weed-eat my yard!
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29 comments:
oh, my goodness ..................
No words right now :(
{{{{{{{{{{{Chile}}}}}}}}}}}}
hugs, shamba
What a bummer that you've had this happen. (I think your point about not giving advice is spot on. I am SO TIRED OF PEOPLE TELLING ME HOW I SHOULD LIVE MY LIFE. It is ruining friendships. If I want your advice, I would ask for it. All I want you to do is LISTEN!!) With that said, you know where to find me via email if you ever need someone to listen.
I wish I could run over right now to help pull nails out of the decking! And bring a homemade casserole.
I can't imagine the depth of the situation but I feel so sorry that you are going through this. I hope it helps just a little to know that others are concerned about you and yours.
I'm sorry.
Your comment on advice echoes thoughts I've had. (I have jokingly considered tattooing the words "Please don't help" on my forehead).
Best wishes to you.
NM
If I could hop on my bike to come over and give a hug, I would. Instead I'll over this instead, {hugs}
Did I say ding dongs? I meant bozos.
If Shamba doesn't have the words that's because I've got 'em right now. Grrrrrrrr.........
Sincere sighs, Spicy Chile of our lives.
Thoughts,
"h"d
**Hug**
Because I can't think of any other words that would be appropriate.
~ a lurker in England.
Large amounts of imaginary hugs coming your way :)
viv :)
Chile, so sorry to hear of all the shit goings on for you - I really wish I could offer you some practical help, but Im in the UK. I really hope all this gets sorted out soon, even though it sounds as though you have had to make the painful decision to move away all together.
Love and hugs - I'll keep my fingers crossed that it all gets better soon !
Babs [[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]
I'm so sorry, Chile.
We've dealt with government bureaucracy with our house, too - nothing as difficult as your situation (although trying to get the septic permit when our old septic system failed was quite an ordeal ... and it was a safety issue, not a zoning problem!), but it's still very frustrating, and I'm sorry when anyone has to go through this sort of crazy-making experience.
Good grief, that's awful - and so unfair! (((hugs)))
Elli
So sorry to hear about your troubles. I guess there's no way to get the former owners or bank to compensate you for your loss is there. Maybe under the Lemon laws in your state?
PS that wasn't advice, it was just a question!!! :o)
I agree.
The friends with whom I share my problems are the ones who just LISTEN. The ones I never share my problems with are the ones who offer advice.
As a former hospital chaplain I know that simply listening is the best help there is - short of miracles, of course :)
I'm so sorry. I would love to take you out to coffee if I was closer! However you should at least know that this post was very informative and interesting having just bought a home (remnants of an old farm) about a month ago for the first time. I'm so glad that you are sharing this with us.
Alrightie, then:
Thought #1: Tasty - (Well, well now!)
Thought #2: Bulging - (Whoa, Nellie!)
Thought #3: Vegan - (You don't say!)
Thought #4: Burrito - (Yeah, food!)
Thought #5: Soon - (When the mood moves)
Thought #6: Yes?
For your consideration,
"H" d :)
Shamba - there have been times through this process that we have been speechless, too. There have been other times, though, with speech not fit for nice people...
Katie - thank you for listening. Sucks to have to go through extreme trauma to figure out what's important, doesn't it?
4 Bushel Farmgal - I'm sure my sweetie wishes you could help, too. He's doing the bulk of the deconstruction while I take care of clean-up and craigslist. It does help that others are thinking of us.
NM - LOL. I was just telling my MIL the other day, when we were discussing "Do Not Resuscitate" orders. I mentioned that some people had it tatooed on their chest. She didn't believe me, but she should have.
Beany - oh come on, it's only a few days' ride... ;-)
"h" d - it's what we get for living in a nanny state. Obviously we're too stupid to figure things out for ourselves and they must protect us. (Excuse me while I throw up.)
Lurker in England - thank you!
Viv - thanks to you, too!
Little Terraced House - we're meeting with another person in the process this afternoon and will get some idea of how much longer straightening up the mess will take. Then we've got to figure out how to make the MH look like a nice place to live without a front deck so we can sell.
Wendy - crazy is the key word. Not only is it making us crazy, the regulations are crazy! Argh.
I remember reading about your septic pumps. Is that for the new one?
Elli - no kidding. Life ain't fair.
dc - no. We've looked at all the litigation options and none would result in us netting much, if anything, at all. :(
Olivia - um, do you know where I can get myself a miracle? I can pay in marmalade!
Anonymous - I'm tired of other people learning from my mistakes, but glad I can be helpful. Biggest advice here, that I'm giving unasked: do not trust anyone else to have your interests in mind when buying property. Research, research, research!
'Course even doing scads of our own research would not have uncovered some of the issues we're facing.
"H" d - let's talk. I've got your contact info. Crazy day today - well, every day has been crazy - but I'll get in touch. I want some chocolate thrown into the offer somewhere though... ;-)
Lordy, Chile, you have my sympathy. I went through something similar with my front deck a few years ago; I have fencing all around my garden that is technically in violation of 'code' because I didn't get a permit for fencing...well, it's t posts with baling twine holding up the garden fencing, and as far as I'm concerned it's temporary because if we move I'm taking it all with me, and I'm not paying several hundred dollars for a permit for temporary fencing. :)
We got a notice from the county assessor hung on our door last year asking us to contact them. I've never done it and don't plan to. If they try to get us for code violation, that fence will come down so fast, with no evidence it was ever there, it will make their heads spin :) And go up nearly as fast afterward.
After dealing with them over our front deck, which actually shouldn't even have needed a permit because the height was ok, I refuse to deal with their nonsense any more. Kunstler is definitely right when he says they've gone too far and are too ridiculous all over this country.
As a former govt worker I can tell you that all they look at when making these codes is 'how can we extract the maximum amt of money from this?' Even the fire depts are that way....
No advice for you, just know I can listen if you want; I've been through it myself.
TFHS - do they do the overhead photos up in your area? Here, they do overhead photos of the county every two years, which I'm sure they're paying someone to go through and find problems.
As soon as the code inspector has written off that we removed the deck, I'll be down at the assessor's office with that information plus the 2010 photo showing the last owner took the HUGE (unpermitted) shed with them. Both of those items removed from the property will reduce the value enough to make a dent in their tax collection. So, end result of all this is the county's incoming funds will go DOWN because they are not making any money on these permit issues. It's costing us money to deal with them but that money is not going to the county. Idiots.
Chile, hubby and I have followed you enough to have great respect for your life style in always conserving and your awareness to use everything so that nothing will go to waste. Having this "waste" imposed on you is extremely unjust and absurd. Electonic HUGS from Maine. May your kind hearts become stronger and not discouraged through all this difficulty. Susan and David
Susan - my sweetie pointed out a positive side effect yesterday to our making sure materials are re-used by others: this means these people are not going out to the big hardware store and buying new materials, and therefore the county is not getting any sales tax on them. :-)
Well, as we wave at the flying overhead camera and its technological component to our lives, we lose. You and Your Sweetie lose, and we lose as a community.
Of course we need rules and regulations to function as a society, but when the human element is removed from consideration to reach meaningful, people-based solutions, we all lose and easily beyond the value of property taxes in this case.
So, a tasty, bulging-bursting vegan burrito in the making, Chile, with a somehow side of non-melting chocolate! While at it, maybe we'll toast all your wonderfully supportive {{{{{readers}}}}.
Hasta la proxima!
~d :)
I have been lax about keeping up on your blog and was very unhappy to hear all the bad news. I imagine keeping a blog like this and having a forum for so many people to comment can be trying when you hear the same thing over and over again as far as advice goes, but you do have my sympathies. I am sorry you have to go through all those ridiculous hoops only to find out you have even more problems than you thought you had to begin with. I hope something good can com out of this.
Hey Carrie - at least back in the rental house, we knew we ultimately couldn't do what we wanted with the property. Who knew it would be even worse when we plunked down our own money to buy something?!
That is just utterly ridiculous! To have to take off a perfectly good and usable deck because of red tape. What a waste and how symbolic of what is wrong with this world. I'm so sorry Chile!
Rats.
Chile -- did you ever think people don't know what say but want to say something. Anything positive. Hell, they may know that it isn't going to be all right but might consider saying that akin to kicking you when your down?
Green Bean - yep, total waste. Typical America!
nova - yes, I know. It's the same situation people are put in when faced with people grieving over the death of a loved one. And it's okay for people to say, "I don't know what to say." And it's okay if people need to tell me that they think it will be okay eventually. It's my choice how to respond. Some days I respond favorably and other days I don't respond so well. Lately I've been telling people that ask "How are you?" that they really don't want to know. :)
Believe me, I debated whether or not to write about this as I knew it would likely antagonize, annoy, and/or offend some people. However, I'm not one for censoring myself as much as I should so I shared the way I was feeling.
Something will work out for us in the end, I'm sure, but we don't know what it will be or when things will get better. Because the things we worked so hard for have not worked out, it makes it very difficult to figure out what direction to go next.
I was brought up to believe that with hard work and dedication, anything is possible. This is not proving to be true in a world where others have so much power over one's life.
I am thankful to live in a country with more freedom than many on this planet, but I chafe when told what I may and may not do with property that I thought I owned, bought with my hard-earned cash - the cash that was left over after paying taxes to the same entities telling me what I can't do with "my" own land.
Rant over.
There might be a few eyesores around but I'm glad I live where we have no zoning. You can have an outhouse if you want...son building an earth bag house and nobody has to check it out before he can do it anyway he wants. Can't believe they are so on your case when you didn't build the deck. Too much government with no enough sense.....DEE
Diana - any empty (cheap) properties for sale near you? :)
I am so, so sorry this has happened to you, and just basically sh*t all over your dream. I hope you can find the support around you that you need, and that happier times lie ahead.
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